Posted by Charity on November 15th, 2006

I am really sick today. To the point that I can only get up for a couple of minutes at a time. I feel kind of bad because there is a good conversation going in the comments of a couple of posts, especially yesterday’s, and I would really like to add to it. I really can’t sit at the computer, though.

Speaking of being sick, if you all want to keep discussing, why don’t you use this thread to talk about healthcare. Is it a right? How should the government’s role in healthcare look?

In case you’re worried, I have health insurance through my husband’s employer. What I need more than that is sleep, though. What a shame I don’t use those government babysitters schools. (Just a little homeschool humor. I am not trying to offend anyone who does use the public schools. Hey, they worked great for me, right?)

28 Responses to “Sick Day”

  1. Health care is not a right. To begin with “rights” are a contruct of the classical liberal Enlightenment philosophy (which I implicitly reject…I agree with Alexander Hamilton’s argument that the Bill of Rights were unnecessary since they already were implicit in the Constitution).

    As far as health care itself I tend to gravitate to the consumer-driven model used by the Swiss (this is something I have yet to see either party endorse or any candidate address despite the great studies done on it by various medical researchers and journals).

  2. Have someone go to a health food store and get you some Emergen-C. It’s good stuff. Get better and get back to politics!

    Mule

  3. You do realize you just wrote a post about how you’re too sick to write, don’t you?

    I’m sick too, but I’m out of sick days, and I’m out of vacation days. Ergo, I work anyway.

    Is Bob gonna go with the “High-Deductible” plan they’re pushing on everyone? Ouch.

    The fact that you rail against socialized medicine and public schools while afforded insurance and the time/money to homeschool via Bob does beg the question- would your outlook change if his support suddenly wasn’t there?

    I mean- if it were a choice between Dynasaur and leaving your kids uninsured, you’d take Dynasaur, wouldn’t you? Tell the truth.

  4. …Oh, I hope you feel better soon.

  5. Being sick as a mom is tough…no break. Been there, done that.

    Brainstorming on health care: I think there should be lower insurance costs for those who exercise regularly (also tough as a mom!) and those who avoid fast food restaurant (also tough for a mom at times when Happy Meals stop hungry tummies). What says y’all above? Not sure how to enforce it unless you received a stamp everytime you go to the gym or your doctor could go with your BMI being sent to insurance company? Also, non-smokers should get cheeper insurance too. It is just human nature that we all need a connection between consequences and choices.

  6. Haik said: “Is Bob gonna go with the “High-Deductible” plan they’re pushing on everyone? Ouch.”

    Haik, c’mon. They’re leaving it up to us, and if we go with the high deductible plan, they’re going to open medical checking accounts in our names and deposit the difference of their contribution between the regular HMO plan and the high deductible plans.
    Don’t forget, this is from the same company that gave us notebooks with the company logo as a reward for exceeding the revenue goal last year! (The kind of notebooks with paper in the middle, for all you non-employees!)
    Personally, we’re sticking with the regular HMO plan.
    Sorry to hear you’re sick. That would explain you’re late arrival yesterday!!!!! :)

  7. “What says y’all above?”

    Of course that would be fairer. It would also be fairer if homeschoolers, private schoolers, the childless and out-of-staters paid a dramatically reduced education-based property tax. It’s the “user pays” approach. Neither one will ever happen though, especially not in the welfare-driven state of Vermont.

  8. I missed all of Pete’s meetings. I will remain uninsured. My wife and son will remain covered by Medicaid and Dr. Dynasaur respectively.

    Health care is a right. It’s a right as much as national defense is a right. As much as clean drinking water is a right. As much as having roads to drive on is a right. There are only two possible outcomes to this debate: Universal Coverage or Economic Ruin. I know which side I’m on.

    And Bob, my start time is 8:45, plus I’m allowed to be up to ten minutes late without calling, as long as I fart into my chair an extra ten minutes during lunch or after five.

    Was I seeing things or did they label you a mere CSS II? Wouldn’t that mean no raise for you? “One-time bonus” perhaps? Or are you an engineer? I can’t remember. I got a raise simply because I was making less then the new minimum pay-grade. There’s a very strong chance I’m the lowest paid cabby DePalma has. I’ve come up with a fitting company motto…

    Vrtk: “Where broken dreams come to die.”

    Don’t judge me because Koko’s on Dynasaur. I have a car loan, 2 school loans, a credit card, rent, utilities, etc. I work 40 hours and poor preggers Poopsie works almost that some weeks- mainly chopping vegetables in a crowded kitchen for $8.75 per hour. We juggle child care with a lot of help from my mother-in-law. Not that we’d want to if we could, but affording day care would be about as feasable as a trip to pluto for us. The fact that we chose state run and /or no insurance has nothing to do with us being lazy bums. We work hard, but it’s damn hard to get ahead with a combined income of 33K. Damn friggin’ hard.

    I’m 100% sure if we switched incomes with you and Charity, y’all would accept Dynasaur for your kids. What kind of parent would let their kid be uninsured simply to adhere to some meaningless lassez-faire, Horatio Alger, Bootstrap Bullshit? That would be wrong. God bless Dr. Dynasaur. God bless Dr. Howard Brush Dean III.

    In a related story- I just posted about my recent medical woes at BP.

  9. Oh, Bob. I can’t believe a grammar wonk like you would mix up “you’re” and “your.”

    Now, Haik, I do not judge you for using Dr. D. Just because I do not think government-funded healthcare is the best approach to healthcare coverage does not mean I judge those who take advantage of what is there.

    You asked, “The fact that you rail against socialized medicine and public schools while afforded insurance and the time/money to homeschool via Bob does beg the question- would your outlook change if his support suddenly wasn’t there?

    First I must note, I was not exactly railing against anything in this post.

    It just so happens that I was not always the paragon of virtue that I am today. I made some pretty immoral lifestyle choices when I was a young, nubile college gal. My oldest two boys are not Bob’s biological children, so actually, I was a single mom for about five years, up until Bob and I got married – because, of course, we did not live together until then.

    When I was single, I worked where you work, then at a small company, then at a huge banking conglomerate, that gobbles up other banks on a frequent basis.

    At the “cab company” as you call it, I had decent benefits. At the small company I had killer benefits – all household members were covered for like $60/month or something crazy like that. Then, I moved to the bank, hoping I could work my way up, since the small company had no advancement opportunities, and the woman who hired me actually told me to put my kids on Dr. Dynosaur because their family plan was like $300 or some ridiculous crap like that.

    Bottom line: State-run healthcare programs allow giant corporations to keep more of their obscene profits and provide crappy benefits, while encouraging employees to sponge off the government.

    That company was fully able to provide good coverage. If the government program wasn’t there, they would have to in order to attract and keep competent help.

    I did put my kids on Dr. Dynosaur when I started working there. It sucks, though. It is really hard to find a good dentist that takes it, unless you want to sit on a 6 month waiting list. Did you know that Medicaid actually pays less than it costs the dentist to provide the care. They actually lose money on Medicaid patients.

    Now, it is not hard for me to imagine Bob not being here to support us, but I was already working toward being able to be home with my kids anyway by starting my own businesses. I’m not sure how that would have turned out, but there are single- and working moms who homeschool. Where there is a will, there is a way. There was one woman on a VT homeschool message board who said her husband works at Wal-Mart. Granted, I don’t know what he does there. But, it’s not because we are somehow better off than the average Joe that we homeschool.

    My kids had an awful time in public school. It did not work for them. I would never put them back in school, no matter what.

    The thing about me is that my ideology doesn’t change with what would be more convenient for me. I believe in homeschooling. We are not exactly living large, you know. I couldn’t even buy books this year, except language arts and math, so we go to the library every week. We make sacrifices. Big sacrifices. One of the trade-offs is that I have to make almost everything from scratch, since I am home. It is not unusual for me to spend two hours on dinner, even three. And we never eat out unless we get a gift card from relatives. And most of our clothes have holes in them. You get the point.

    I’m not complaining, though. I love our life. I love my family. And I would be willing to do whatever I had to to homeschool. Bob and I do not believe in divorce, but if he died or something, we would make it work. God willing, that won’t ever happen.

  10. Just so this point isn’t lost, I do not judge people who use the programs that are available. To me, there is a difference between saying that the government shouldn’t do it that way, and saying people shouldn’t use what is there. It’s just dealing with the reality that is available now.

  11. If your company offers health care for family coverage that includes children for under 40 or 50 dollars per month, then you might consider keeping them on your employee sponsored plan. If it’s more than that (which it is in most cases) then it’s fiscally irresponsible to not use Dr. Dynasaur if you qualify. I administer a health care plan for 160 employee through vt blue cross and the rate increase this year alone is over 15%. When a company such as mine subsidizes the employee at 80% that increase goes along way in decreasing “huge profits”. This is not inclusive of increases in dental insurance costs, worker’s comp premiums, life insurance, LTD, etc. I have had no problems at all with getting my kids a dentist or high quality care with Dr. D. In fact, the coverage they have is better than the coverage my wife and I have through my work. There are no deductibles, no co-pays, they have first dollar coverage. If I were to include my children on my heatlh plan it would be analogous to my paying my outrageous property tax bills and then sending more money to send my kids to private schools. Except, in this case the opportunity for quality, affordable health care is what’s being offered by the state (via the taxpayer) and not by the private sector. The private sector is bogged down by the cost of health care and this state has shown that it can do much better. It’s time to try something new. Expand health care to all and we will all save.

  12. Expand health care to all and we will all save. That is obviously true based on empirical evidence and simple math.

    Generally (always exceptions)a poor person who votes Republican is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders.

    And I would have to add- A rich person voting Republican is like a poor person voting for Senator Sanders.

    Senator Sanders!!!!! Yay!!!!!!

  13. “Generally (always exceptions)a poor person who votes Republican is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders.”

    Why, do Republicans eat poor people? Nevermind.

    I get really tired of hearing that. You know, come to think of it, if I was only as smart as you Haik, I would vote for Democrats and Socialists. Too bad I’m not.

    At least hearing you talk down to me about who I vote for is better than listening to some rich asshole like Howard Dean or Bernie Sanders saying it.

  14. Both parties eat poor people: Corporations eat poor people.

    Bernie isn’t gonna do shit in Washington, He might say all the right things but as long as the system is subservient to the corporations the best he can hope for is to end up a martyr like Paul Wellstone.

    Bernie For Governor!

  15. “And I would have to add- A rich person voting Republican is like a poor person voting for Senator Sanders.”

    And I would have to ask, then what is a rich person who votes for Sanders?

  16. Republicans eat poor people?

    Answer: Yes, they do.

    Bottom line: State-run healthcare programs allow giant corporations to keep more of their obscene profits and provide crappy benefits, while encouraging employees to sponge off the government.

    “obscene” profits? That’s capitalism. People make money. Don’t like it? Move to Russia.

    You’re missing the big picture. Just because some companies take advantage of the state system because it helps their bottom line tells us little about the value of universal coverage. If anything, it tells us it would help the private sector prosper.

    Did you know that Medicaid actually pays less than it costs the dentist to provide the care.

    Yes. And I really like my dentist. That and the fact few dentists accept Dr.D is why I buy Delta Insurance for Teeth.

    Now, it is not hard for me to imagine..but I was already working toward …starting my own businesses. I’m not sure how …. Where there is a will, there is a way.

    Yes. But sometimes that ‘way’ takes time. What do you do in the meantime? Everybody starts businesses. I ran a sandwich biz for more than a year and sold imports for about four years. So what? If you run a small business, you probably work 72+ hours a week. I did with Sandwich. When would you homeschool?

    I would never put them back in school, no matter what.

    I hope you never have to. But if you had to you would.

    I’m not complaining…

    I must have heard it wrong :)

    …willing to do whatever I had to to homeschool….we would make it work…

    Oh! I almost forgot what I had originally asked. If (God forbid) something happened that caused you to lose your health insurance, and it came down to a choice between leaving your kids uninsured, and enrolling them in Dr. Dinasaur, would you or would you not enroll them in Dr. Dynasaur?

  17. And I would have to ask, then what is a rich person who votes for Sanders?

    Answer: A Philanthropist.

  18. Did you miss the part where I said I did enroll them in Dr. Dynasaur when I went to work at the bank? That’s how I know it sucks.

    And I will never have to enroll my kids in school. It’s a choice. The school sucked out their souls and left them a shell of their former selves. It has taken a long time to get them back. I will never put them in school again. Period. When you want to make something work, you make it work.

  19. Did you miss the part where I said I did enroll them in Dr. Dynasaur when I went to work at the bank?

    Yeah- but the part where you said “The thing about me is that my ideology doesn’t change with what would be more convenient for me” kind of threw me.

    So the answer then, is yes, you would enroll your kids in state run health insurance rather than leave them uninsured. Congratulations. Your’re a good parent.

    That’s how I know it sucks.

    It only sucks for Dental. It can’t be beat for medical.

  20. That’s so weird that you deleted that comment because I wanted to respond to it…

    I know this is kind of nuanced for a conservative, but I believe ideologically that the government should not be providing healthcare and that charity should come from private sources, but since that is not the reality of how our system is currently set up, I fully understand that people have to use the government. I have. I see nothing wrong with it. That does not change the fact that I think it should be changed.

    I hope that makes sense and clears up any confusion.

  21. Oh good, you put your comment back up.

  22. Remember when anonymous used to call you “Comment Deleted”? That was so funny. Probably not to you though, huh?

  23. I just couldn’t get it perfect is all. Blogger studder. What happened to that person who used to call me “comment deleted?”

    Wow they HATED me.

  24. This is rediculous. We’re talking at the same time. I gotta go.

  25. That’s so funny.

    Anonymous totally hated you. I think that person is still lurking around. Occasionally there is an anonymous comment that I think is that guy (or gal).

  26. I am not one generally for government programs though I do believe in a safety net. A reliable source told me that Dr. Dynasaur does not cost the state that much due to the fact that children are generally healthy (compared to the types of sicknesses adults have I think) and preventative care is emphasized.

    For insurance, we pay around $600 + per month with a high deductible and we can put up to that deductible amount into an HSA (Health Savings) that can be rolled over from year to year. If we have money left over in it by retirement age, then it can be rolled over into an IRA. We can put up to 5 K into the HSA. If we can’t afford that then we put less than the 5 K into the HSA. The HSA connects the user and the payer which I favor as you may have guessed from my previous blog. :)

  27. New poster – Charity – love the blog. Found you thru BVT Daily news – Kevin Ryan.
    Health care is a right in that you should not be denied it for any reason. However it is also a service that has value, so one should expect to pay for it. The issue is health insurance – and that system is not quite broken, but is teetering. I think that instead of all state insurance commissioners telling insurance companies that they can’t discriminate, that they should allow premiums to be set at a higher level, and then individuals would get discounts for various ‘good health’ activities that can be proved. There are many arguments in many directions, but I gotta go back to work…

  28. no.can kiss.not apple get kiss.ok