“The very fact that you feel women should not be allowed to have abortions is evidence enough.”

Show me where I said that.

The very fact that you feel women should not be allowed to have abortions is evidence enough.

Easily, huh? I am a strong, powerful woman. When the going got tough, I got an abortion. Doesn’t really work for me.

Great that it doesn’t work for you, but I think a woman choosing control over her own destiny is the epitome of empowerment.

It is. I had friends in college who had abortions. It was very traumatic.

And I have people close to me who have had them, too. For some, it was stressful. For others, nothing but a relief.

I don’t get your line about not having a ‘choice”. What was stopping you from choosing? Nothing. Nobody was making you have an abortion.

Strong people get through them. They don’t go deprive someone else of their right to live.

But if you have a hard time viewing a cluster of cells as a “someone”, as many do, it’s not that hard. I worry more about the plight of the already-born.

Choices. I’m sorry, I didn’t realize that pro-choice means you get to choose which kind of abortion to have. I thought it meant real choices, like adoption, keeping the baby. You know, what the woman wants, not what she is pressured to do.

There is a lot of pressure to get an abortion. It is disgusting.

My son is now 11, by the way.

“Hey, this is a medical procedure that a woman can get, period.”

No. It was more like, in response to my question about why they don’t promote prevention, (and this is as accurate as I can remember), “If we focus on prevention, that is like saying that one choice is better than another. We support all choices women make, whether that is contraception, abortion, or having a baby. If a woman wants to have seven children, that is as good a choice as having seven abortions.”

Excuse me while I go vomit.

I think what you’re really hearing from these groups is, “Hey, this is a medical procedure that a woman can get, period.” I really think it all goes back to how you view when a human life beings. If you believe that life doesn’t begin until let’s say the middle of the second tri-mester, then what’s the harm done? It’s when things are done later, for the life of the mother or because a woman just changes her mind, is when the argument gets hairy IMO.

There are many different ways to end a pregnancy medically, and I’m no expert in any of them though. What did you want them to offer you?

The leadership of these groups is of the mindset that an abortion is equally as acceptable as prevention. Not just something to do if you”accidentally” get pregnant, but a valid first choice. Not a last resort. I am basing this on actual conversations that I have had with pro-choice activists, including someone in an official position in one of these groups.

JD, I did not address those who are opposed to contraception because, when I wrote this, I had not actually ever met a pro-life activist, or anyone who opposed contraception.

“Well, when that little lump of tissue is actually viable (as in ‘can live without extensive medical care”) perhaps you’d have something there. Last time I shecked, the embryo couldn’t do that.”

Actually, abortions are performed past the point of viability.

“One could easily argue that choosing not to give life to a child is equally empowering, especially if having that child will make one’s life extremely difficult.”

Easily, huh? I am a strong, powerful woman. When the going got tough, I got an abortion. Doesn’t really work for me.

“…there is nothing anywhere that will convince me that a woman should be forced to have a child she does not want whether she was careless or not.”

Yes. And there is nothing that can convince me that a woman should be forced to have a car accident, or a house fire, or get laid off, or lose a loved one, or get diagnosed with cancer.

Nobody forces these things on people. They happen. They are difficult. They usually suck. But they happen. Strong people get through them. They don’t go deprive someone else of their right to live.

Having a baby is not that fricking hard. Keeping it, well, that’s a different story. Incubating it for 9 months is not the end of the world.

I am not saying that anyone should be “forced” to have their baby. But women do not have a choice. They are not offered the options. Especially young women.

I got pregnant at 19 and when I called a local pro-choice clinic to cancel a prior appointment, the woman asked if I wanted to reschedule. I said I did not need that appointment because I just found out I was pregnant.

Do you think she offered to discuss my options? Do you think she asked me what my choice was? No. She said, “We offer a full range of abortion services. Would you like to make an appointment?”

WTF is a “full range of abortion services”? That’s what I would like to know.

I was scared and alone and pregnant. And she offered me an abortion. Not a choice.

As for you and Jeni, you can do whatever you want. You are adults. But, if you really don’t want kids, you should look into sterilization. I am not being flip.

The problem I have with abortion, and the rhetoric surrounding it, is that the discussion has impersonalized the situation. Being pregnant is a very emotional event for a woman, but women – young women, especially – are being led to believe that the “procedure” is no big deal.

It is. I had friends in college who had abortions. It was very traumatic.

Our society has devalued pregnancy and motherhood. It is making a comeback, thank God. Ten years ago, it was not in vogue to be a mom.

Okay, I am rambling now.

“You people go on and on about ‘freedom’ yet are some of the most authoritarian people out there.”

Show me where I am being authoritarian. Actual quotes, please.

Kinda tough when the Bible-thumpers don’t even want people aving access to contraception.

“For starters, there has to be some recognition that the ‘thing’ (for lack of a better neutral word) in a pregnant woman’s uterus is something more than a mass of non-viable tissue.”

Well, when that little lump of tissue is actually viable (as in ‘can live without extensive medical care”) perhaps you’d have something there. Last time I shecked, the embryo couldn’t do that.

The first time an expectant mother hears the heartbeat, she knows this ‘thing’ is not just non-viable tissue or part of her body, it is her baby. You’ll win more points in the my-argument-makes-more-sense department if you acknowledge at least that much.

When those women consider it “their baby” they usually don’t get those abortions. The ones that don’t, do.

“There is nothing more empowering than giving life to a child.”

One could easily argue that choosing not to give life to a child is equally empowering, especially if having that child will make one’s life extremely difficult.

Which brings me to may last point. In most cases, no one is forcing women to become pregnant. The vast majority of unintended pregnancies are avoidable.

Two things, so if me and Jenni did everything humanly possible to prevent pregnancy and it fails, we’re shit out of luck? That happens much more than you think.
And my second point, although I don’t think abortion should be a form of birth control, but there is nothing anywhere that will convince me that a woman should be forced to have a child she does not want whether she was careless or not.

Choices come with consequences. The consequence of unprotected sex can be a pregnancy.

And the consequence of an abortion is the end of that unintended pregnancy. What’s your point?

You people go on and on about ‘freedom’ yet are some of the most authoritarian people out there.

I would agrue that the “abortion enthusiasts” as you put it are actually also desperately doing the “work to lower the number of abortions performed in the US.” No one that I know that’s either had an abortion or is Pro-Choice likes the idea of abortions. What this whole abortion argument is really about is when does a zygote or a fetus or whatever become a human life. Last time I heard, science was saying that somewhere around 20-something weeks into a pregnancy was where this happened and a whole lot of Pro-Life people still “believed” (this is the key word) that it began at conception.

“The pro-choice position wanders into the realm of the ridiculous when they object to legislation that would make it a crime of murder when a mother is assaulted and loses her baby. They call it a back door attempt to limit a woman’s reproductive rights by granting legal protection to a fetus.”

What the Pro-Choice movement talks about again here is the potential re-definition of when does a human life begin in a pregnancy…that’s all.

“The vast majority of unintended pregnancies are avoidable.”

We are in agreement here, which is why a lot of the Pro-Choice movement rail against those in the Pro-Life movement that are against all forms of contraception and/or the health education in schools or wherever else to be able to effectively use it.

I’m a guy (hence the name), and I feel strongly that a lot of men need to take a back seat on this issue and leave it up to women to solve however they feel the need to solve it.