I am going to keep this positive. For some, this is a tremendous victory and today you are celebrating. Have your moment. I won’t spoil it by saying something negative about President-elect Obama. Instead, I will share a couple of good things about Barack Obama’s win.
The first is the political climate. The left would not have accepted defeat graciously (just look at Gaye Symington’s catty concession speech). They would have become unhinged. America might not have been able to weather the storm that would have followed.
The divisiveness and nastiness of the past 8 years has been almost unbearable. Four more years would have been.
Let me be clear here, I am not saying that an Obama presidency will unite us and end disagreement. I am saying that the left needed a win because they were getting just too nasty.
I did not realize how destructive to our civil discourse a McCain win would have been until I read this.
War of choice
throwing economic gasoline onto our global financial firestorm
letting the super-rich squeeze out every last drop of money they can from a middle and working class on the brink
throwing environmental degradation into high gear
using the power of the office to force her frightening religious beliefs into every corner of our Republic
zeal for a culture war against me and my family
It reads almost like a parody, the claims are so wildly exaggerated. But then I realized that for countless people, this is their reality. And those are the same people who are actively engaged in our political discussions.
I don’t expect world views to suddenly sync up. I know that there are still great divisions in this country ideologically. But Obama’s election will go a long way toward ending the outrage over the elections of 2000 and 2004.
Hopefully now, we can discuss our differences with a more civil tone.
At least for two more years.
The second, and most important, good thing about Obama’s win – race relations. As many of you know, I have two black sons. They are 10 and 11. It has been my deepest hope for this country that by the time my sons were grown, we would have put the past behind us and embraced the future. I hoped that the race hustlers would be silenced and no longer propagate the belief that race is an insurmountable barrier to success in this country, and instead recognize what we have become and the bright future that lies before us if we can only learn to forgive the past mistakes.
This election was tainted with an undercurrent of condemnation and accusations that we are too racist a people to elect a black president. I knew that was false. I have always believed in Americans and, though I know all too well that racism still exists and is very ugly, I know that is not who we are as a country.
The election of Barack Obama has proven that to be true. Ironically, Sen. Obama’s election validated what conservatives have been saying all along, and what John McCain said so eloquently in his concession speech, “I’ve always believed that America offers opportunities to all who have the industry and will to seize it.”
This is an historic election, and I recognize the special significance it has for African-Americans and for the special pride that must be theirs tonight.
I’ve always believed that America offers opportunities to all who have the industry and will to seize it. Senator Obama believes that, too.
But we both recognize that, though we have come a long way from the old injustices that once stained our nation’s reputation and denied some Americans the full blessings of American citizenship, the memory of them still had the power to wound.
A century ago, President Theodore Roosevelt’s invitation of Booker T. Washington to dine at the White House was taken as an outrage in many quarters.
America today is a world away from the cruel and frightful bigotry of that time. There is no better evidence of this than the election of an African-American to the presidency of the United States.
Let there be no reason now … Let there be no reason now for any American to fail to cherish their citizenship in this, the greatest nation on Earth.
Let there be no reason now.
I hope and pray with all my heart that we can finally heal as a nation and begin to move beyond race.
As I listened to stories of older black Americans who lived through segregation and oppression, I could not help but think, they deserve this. They deserve to know, once and for all, that America is not at its heart a racist country.
When I read Cathy Resmer’s interview with Nari Penson, who shared stories of what her grandmother and father went through to vote in the past, a part of me wanted Obama to win for her and for the millions with stories like hers.
My how far we have come.
So, I congratulate President-elect Obama. And while I did not vote for him and I have vast disagreements with him, he will soon be our president – my president – a title that warrants honor and respect, regardless of our political differences.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:22 am
WEll, you said some nice things there, Charity. Unfortunately, you’re still wrong about so many things. You really don’t get it. None of those claims are “wildly exaggerated”; they are spot on accurate, and that’s why your people lost and will continue to lose until they realize that. Iraq was not a war of choice? The braindead homophobes who just deprived thousands of CA couples of their marriage aren’t waging a culture war against families? Bush hasn’t consistently waged a war on environmental protection? You gonna tell me Bush isn’t retarded next or Joe the Plumber was a brilliant guy? You gonna get a reality check when this continues in 2010 or you gonna still cling to the nonsense? The world does not work the way you think it does. It simply never has and never will.
Maybe God might do you a favor and whisper in your ear again and let you in on it. But I suspect you probably wouldn’t listen to him, either.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:34 am
Pro’s of Obama presidency:
1. Race relations. Hopefully black America will stop blaming whitey for everything.
2. End of Neo-con influence. Let’s stop invading countries.
Cons:
1. Universal health care
2. Even more progressive taxes on the wealth creators (aka ‘the rich’)
3. Amnesty for Illegal Aliens
4. Weakening of the US military. We’re going to need it now that our enemies have been emboldened by the democratic victories.
5. Terrorist attacks are now a lot more likely.
6. Obama’s ’solutions’ to our economic problems sound a lot like Jimmy Carter’s. Why does he think they’ll work this time?
I’m sure there are more cons, but I can’t think of them right now.
I think a lot of the people who bought into the ‘hope & change’ rhetoric are going to be sorely disappointed with what they get. He can’t possibly fulfill their expectations.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Oh yeah, here’s another Pro: maybe all those infantile liberals will take the ‘1.20.09′ stickers off their cars!!
November 5th, 2008 at 10:47 am
Oh JD, will you ever be happy? You just won and you still can’t simply enjoy it.
I’ll respond to a few of your comments.
“The braindead homophobes who just deprived thousands of CA couples of their marriage aren’t waging a culture war against families?”
When in history have homosexuals been allowed to marry?
When has a family been made up of two homosexuals?
Answer: not until the 21st century.
Who then is waging a culture war against families?
Answer: homosexuals
“Bush hasn’t consistently waged a war on environmental protection? ”
How so? By not supporting the Global Warming … oops, I mean Climate Change crap that environmentalists are pushing. As you can see, I’m behind the times on this because I referred to Global Warming, which stopped happening all on it’s own, without liberal interference.
“You gonna tell me Bush isn’t retarded next or Joe the Plumber was a brilliant guy?”
Are you saying that a retard beat two well respected liberal Democrats for the office of president of the United States?
That says a lot about your movement JD.
All Joe did was ask a question.
And yes, Iraq was a war of choice.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:46 am
Homosexuals? You’re an intolerant idiot, Bob, no nice way to put it, it’s so funny it’s pathetic. Please explain that one. You gonna tell me how the Jew provoked Hitler into the Holocaust, too, because it’s essentially the same argument. Global warming is a lie? Strike two. Bush was installed by the Supreme Court. Strike three. Bush has weakened and damaed the military like no other president ever has. Strike four.
Lemme guess, you’re waiting for the Rapture, Obama’s a communist, and the Founding Fathers intended for this to be a Christian nation. Trickle down economics have been an astounding success. Did I forget anything?
I’m very happy. You guys are toast for a really long time. The GOP is officially the party of stupid.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:58 am
One last thing, Bob, regarding your pathetic culture war thing. When has ANYTHING ever stayed the same? Since when are things ever the same as hey were 100 or 1000 years ago? People could’ve just as easily asked those same qustions about blacks or women having rights, too. More importantly, since when is “this never happened before” a valid legitimate argument against or for anything. There is no logic to that whatsoever. Things change. They always have. Deal with it, or get therapy.
That’s the root of the conservative problem… you simply cannot digest the fact that humanity is dynamic. It is always changing. Aside from your indignation at losing yet another sense of privilege, how is your family harmed by it? I’d really like to know. I’m serious. Will you get divorced now simply because marriage has lost its meaning for you? Are you angry that heterosexuals have destroyed “traditional” marriage too, by doing away with arranged marriages or marriages out of social standing? The concept of romantic marriages is a recent one, relatively speaking. What about concubines?
November 5th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
“You gonna tell me how the Jew provoked Hitler into the Holocaust, too, because it’s essentially the same argument.”
How is it ‘essentially the same argument’?
(You liberals always invoke Hitler and the holocaust, but never seem to explain the similarities. I think it boils down to this: ‘I don’t like your views, so I’m going to call you Hitler’.)
Anyway, please answer the question:
How is it ‘essentially the same argument’?
November 5th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Well, you have an oppressed minority somehow being positioned as oppressing the majority. It’s quite simple really. It’s not “I don’t like your views, I invoke Hitler.” It’s more a nod to the authoritarianism you folks seem to love so much as you pay lip service to freedom.
You haven’t explained how they are harming families. Still waiting. And “the Bible says so” doesn’t count; grown-up arguments only, please.
November 5th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
My humble musical letter to president Obama:
http://www.writinghannah.blogspot.com
Best,
Hannah
November 5th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
“Well, you have an oppressed minority somehow being positioned as oppressing the majority.”
That’s a weak analogy. Gays aren’t oppressed in the sense of the word you are using. They have the same rights as you and I. What they want are special rights AND they want their lifestyle to be taught in public elementary schools. That is one of the reasons that the CA voters shot it down.
That’s also one of the reasons it harms families. Young children shouldn’t be exposed to sexual topics, especially homosexuality.
Also, homosexual relationships tend to not last very long. Just look at the ‘happy couple’ in MA that won the landmark court case. They’re divorced!!
But, to get back to your original statement(”The braindead homophobes who just deprived thousands of CA couples of their marriage aren’t waging a culture war against families?”), the CA voters were responding to a cultural change they don’t like.
Since the homosexuals are the ones who wanted and forced the cultural change, it is they who were waging the war. And they just lost a round.
Unfortunately for democracy, the CA judges will most likely overturn this vote like they have with many other voter initiatives there. That’s a better use of the word ‘authoritarian’, by the way.
November 5th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
I’ll say it again. Bob, you’re an idiot. And you don’t make solid cases. For anything.
Special rights? Gimme a break. They want to marry who they want to marry, not who some narrow-minded person like you says they should be allowed to marry. They want it to be taught in schools? Really? Oral Same Sex 101? Oh, wait, you mean they just want kids to know that it’s not cool to treat them like you think they should be treated. My bad.
How does it harm families? You point to one divorce case? 1 in 3 hetero marriages end in divorce. Sounds like a “married” problem, not a “gay” problem. They tend not to last long? Really? Some proof on that? Shall we just ignore gay couples who have been together for decades? Or just ignore them because they don’t fit into your fact-free narrative?
Homophobic bigots like you are telling other people how they may or may not live. Nobody is forcing YOU to do anything against your will. Nobody is making you marry another man. You’re pointing the authoritarian finger in the wrong direction, pal.
November 5th, 2008 at 5:39 pm
I’m putting it in a separate comment so I can make sure you read it.
How are your rights being deprived of in any way, shape or form? How is your family being harmed? And if “having your kids know about it” is your answer, how is “having them know about it” harmful?
November 5th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
“Universal health care”
Man, President Obama’s not even *for* universal health care…sheesh…
“Amnesty for Illegal Aliens”
When did President Obama say that he was for this??
“Weakening of the US military. We’re going to need it now that our enemies have been emboldened by the democratic victories.”
We need a *smarter* military that can fight the wars of today and the future, not the wars of the past that we’re never going to fight & probably couldn’t have won in the first place. None of our “enemies have been emboldened” by President Obama…far from it actually.
“Terrorist attacks are now a lot more likely.”
Keep repeating the same nonsense…it’ll still never be true, but oh well…
“Obama’s ’solutions’ to our economic problems sound a lot like Jimmy Carter’s.”
No, they really don’t, but again…keep repeating the same nonsense over & over.
“When in history have homosexuals been allowed to marry?
When has a family been made up of two homosexuals?
Answer: not until the 21st century.”
Wrong again…tell that to Denmark (who did it in 1989), and then ask how people in the Netherlands, Belgium, Spain, Canada, South Africa, and Norway feel about it. Then look at what’s happened in Massachusetts, Connecticut, and (up until very recently unfortnuately) California. Then look right here in VT or in Maine, New Jersey, and the District of Columbia…is the world coming to end?? Are marriages being “threatened”?? Is YOUR marriage being “threatened” by what’s happened here in VT?? I doubt it. What happened in CA recently was just rapant bigotry…plain & simple.
“How so?”
Please, under GWB, Texas ranked near the bottom in environmental evaluations. He’s also weakened the Clean Air Act and many other environmental regulations that were related to, among many other things, strip mining.
“Are you saying that a retard beat two well respected liberal Democrats for the office of president of the United States?”
Too bad he didn’t actually win in 2000.
“They have the same rights as you and I.”
Really?? Can they get married?? Can they apply for a job or housing without the fear of discrimination?? I didn’t think so…please…spare us all…
“homosexual relationships tend to not last very long.”
Now you’re really just speaking from shear ignorance…look around the state of VT for plenty of examples of same sex couples that have been together for decades & decades.
I’m not naive enough to think that President Obama will be able to end racism in this country. The best that he can do is be an example of a smart, articulate man (who just happens to be half-black) that can do a lot of good and fix some of the many problems that we are faced with today as a nation. One of the best ways for people to learn is through example IMO.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
You are killing me here, JD. I was trying to refrain from getting into the ideological battles today.
One quick response – gay marriage is not harmful, in and of itself. The problems come when young children are being taught about sexual preference when it is (1) not age-appropriate and (2) not the school’s role to deal with such a complicated personal matter. And problems come when religious liberty – which this country was founded on – is violated in favor of protecting someone’s feelings.
Tell me again where in the Constitution is says you have a right to have your lifestyle accepted. You certainly don’t accept my lifestyle.
If that is the culture war you are referring to, it was certainly not brought on by conservatives.
I have no problem with gay people. My brother is gay and I love him and accept him. Ask him and he’ll tell you the same thing.
Hate and intolerance is not what this is about and if you think it is, you are truly clueless about the people you hate.
Then again, hate usually does stem from ignorance.
November 6th, 2008 at 6:19 am
How about we all, collectively … as in spread out among all of us, share a common sigh of relief over how the election turned out …
After that sigh of relief, let’s all figure out how we can keep tens of millions of voters for casting their ballots in favor of the stupidity, incompetence, dishonesty and gross lack of ability illustrated in that video … from FOX.
November 6th, 2008 at 6:20 am
Charity, the Youtube window showed up in the preview window, but it does not carry through to the post … fwiw.
Anyway … here’s the video link … http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWZHTJsR4Bc
November 6th, 2008 at 8:26 am
Rama, I saw that video last night. At this point, it is the word of some McCain staffers who blame Palin for his loss. Who knows if that is true or not.
But hey, at least we get gafftastic Joe Biden as the VP! I’m sure he is a geography expert.
Incidentally, did you know that Australia is both a country and a continent? I don’t think that Palin was unaware that Africa is a continent. If that accusation is true at all, she probably thought it was one country and the different countries were states or provinces or something. It’s not that big of a mistake. Well, you know, if Joe Biden made it, anyway.
November 6th, 2008 at 10:37 am
Charity, I’m not taking issue with age appropriate stuff as far as education, but last I checked, they weren’t teaching kindergartners about anal sex.
Religious liberty has not been violated, as no one is forcing churches to perform or even sanction gay marriages. The very concept that religious belief is so prominent in this day and age offends me, but I’m not trying to outlaw it. I hope I’m misunderstanding you, but it seems you’re coming from the point that allowing gay marriage is somehow violating someone’s religious freedom. Please tell me I’m wrong. I hope so.
“Tell me again where in the Constitution is says you have a right to have your lifestyle accepted. You certainly don’t accept my lifestyle.”
It doesn’t , but two things. It’s really demeaning to reduce gayness to a “lifestyle” as though it’s like drinking chai tea, feng shui or listening to jazz. It is who people are. You,having a gay brother should know that. Sure, I think your lifestyle borders on insanity, but I’m not trying to get people who claim to hear God or think Sarah Palin is bright committed to mental hospitals, entertaining as that might be.
What it comes down to, and what I take issue with in Bob’s “argument” (and calling it that is being generous) is that he pulls the typical tool out of the conservative toolbox- that of privileged victimhood to make it seem that somehow gays getting married is victimizing him. It’s bullshit, and I suspect you know it. Don’t tell me it’s not about intolerance. That’s exactly what it is, a textbook definition. He thinks gays are icky, and somehow his sense of privilege (heterosexual marriage) is being threatened by it.
November 6th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
JD, I am not talking about teaching actual sex acts. I am talking about teaching the topic of sexual orientation. It is for parents to decide when to talk about that. Different kids are ready at different ages and the schools should just not even get into it.
AS to the religious liberty, I don’t have time to get into detail, so take a look at this link that gives some examples of the problems.
You are totally off base about Bob. I admit he is not articulating his points well, but it’s not about threatening his sense of privilege.
For one, it is about what I talked about above. This concept is very difficult to fully explain here, but it has to do with the schools. Exposing kids to concepts about sexuality and sexual preference before they are ready is harmful.
Also, the idea that gay marriage weakens marriage is not about it weakening individual marriages. I am not sure I agree with the argument, but I have taken the time to try to understand it, at least.
Basically, marriage is a thing that exists. It is a union between a man and a woman. If someone suddenly decides to change the definition of the thing, it undermines the tradition. I am not a big traditionalist, so I have a hard time getting this, but it has nothing to do with harming individual marriages. It’s about the institution itself.
Although, I will say that politicizing the institution of marriage and reducing it in conversation to “two people who love each other” I think really cheapens it. It a heck of a lot more than two people who love each other. There is a lot more than love involved in having a successful marriage, which probably is why so many fail.
November 6th, 2008 at 9:34 pm
That’s an awesome video Rama. What a surprise…everything that we thought about Palin (that she wasn’t ready to be a “heartbneat away”, etc., etc.) was true…too funny…
Palin is done…Huckabee will eat her lunch in 2012.
November 6th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
“Basically, marriage is a thing that exists. It is a union between a man and a woman.”
And it used to be a marriage between a man and several women. Or between a man and woman, each chosen by their parents. In our part of the world, it’s not those things any more. Your first sentence is a fact. Your second one is an opinion, one that is fine.. if you’re defining it for yourself. A marriage is whatever it is in society at any given time, not one static definition.
What if parents never get around to deciding that topic? What if a parent fills the kid’s head with a bunch of disturbing lies and nonscientific, hateful crap? It’s part of the intricate cultural fabric that makes the tapestry of our society, not just private parts of the same kind touching each other. With the critics, it always comes down to the sex act. They think about gay sex more than gay people do , fer chrissake.
November 6th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
“Palin is done…Huckabee will eat her lunch in 2012″
In which said lunch (and Palin) will be quickly digested, pooped out and flushed by the American voter.
November 7th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Another way to look at this debate is given from Vigen Guroian, a Professor of Theology at Loyola College and a Eastern Orthodox Christian. Guroian argues that traditional Christianity can not sanction heresy and since the state seems intent on imposing a redefinition of marriage (which isn’t anything new as sexual liberation and political control go hand in hand and have ever since the French Revolution) it should unilaterally disengage from sanctioning civil marriages altogether.
This would automatically impose a two-tiered system of marriage. First, in which people receive a civil marriage before the eyes of the state–which would not sanctioned by the Church, and second, a sacramental marriage before the eyes of God which can only be obtained from the Church (and as long as it complies with Church teaching).
Guroian says that this two-tiered system might prove to be only temporary until the various denominations can get their respective ecclesiastical houses in order on the question of marriage (which would include divorce). Episcopalians and Unitarians could very well interpret this to mean that “homosexual marriage” should be allowed in their denominations, however, it is not a far stretch to assume that as more traditional denominations are on the rise in the Global South (Africa, Asia, South America) these more progressive churches will eventually implode due to their incoherent and chaotic theological doctrines and continued decline in membership.
By allowing the traditional churches to step back and define marriage for themselves according to the Scriptures and Tradition, and by separating sacramental marriage from civil marriage, religious bodies will be able to defend their “Christian self-identity.”
This, however, fails to solve the problem of cultural decadence which would inevitably result from allowing the state to continue to redefine marriage. Then again traditional Christians have to ask themselves, aren’t we already in a post-Christian world and with what institution should our loyalties lie, the state or the Church?
November 7th, 2008 at 11:12 pm
Wow, N.P , that’s probably the first thing you’ve ever said that made sense.
Sadly, in this country at least, we are far from being in a post-Christian world, unless you mean that we are because it’s not a theocracy.
November 7th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Charity, I can see where you’re coming from but two things.Discrimination is still discrimination, whether the Sky Fairy says it is or not, and I really don’t see a wave of same sex couples flocking to intolerant Pentacostal or Mormon churches. They know better. The law is the law.
November 12th, 2008 at 1:07 pm
Wow! JD and Bob your so full of your own agendas – shut up and find something constructive and positive to do or be a part of. If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem! You two are now the poster children of what’s wrong with our society. Sometimes it is better to agree to disagree. Oh yes we live in the land of the free…free to bitch and whine and avoid resolution at all cost which you too showed us. And by the way I think yor two need a group hug!